Advisor 3, Learner 3: Interview 3, Extract 8 (C3_A3_3_8)

A3: it’s not a rejection of English, I rejected English because it was a simple, effective way of justifying my poor English and not looking too bad to the others < you could say that too.
C3: hum hum hum >
A3: and erm that’s the thing, at a certain point you no longer have the elements of the mechanism, so what happens is that it’s very difficult to get back into it and it’s even impossible to get back into it.
C3: yeah yeah yeah
A3: then there are other constraints that come into play: um, well, you’re working, you’ve got this, you’ve got that and so the methods, um, I think they’re im- it’s important to look at them more closely, but um, beyond the methods, since I’d say we’re in a meta-method for me in what we’re < in the process of doing
C3: um > um
A3: what allows us to make more progress is this understanding of ourselves
C3: yes, absolutely
A3: and I’m convinced that I wouldn’t be able to make any progress with a traditional method
C3: yeah yeah yeah
A3: because there wasn’t an understanding- if I’d done it on my own I’d have done it because I taught myself naturally but I’d have done it personally with myself in inverted commas
C3: um
A3: that means there’s no exchange like there can be < have

C3: hum hum >
A3: for me, confrontation in the positive sense < of the term
C3: hum hum >
A3: it’s an essential part of self-understanding
C3: yes, absolutely, yes, because I’m just sending you little echoes, it’s < all that
A3: yeah >
C3: what I do eh uh with you I don’t explain anything well not much [laughs].
A3: yes, but it allows me to understand understand understand understand myself
C3: there you go
A3: so for me if it works well it’s effective it has a mirror effect
C3: Hmm, that’s it
A3: ahem
C3: that’s good
A3: but also um well we’ve already talked about it I think the fact of being um on a bit of the same logic it’s not that it helps me to function especially in relation to English c- I don’t think so but above all it motivates me even more because when I arrived I didn’t know um < they gave me
C3: um >
A3: told me to come and uh well to come and see it was \prénom1\ who told me to come and see for myself
C3: yes
A3: erm I was very stimulated because erm we were doing research so erm I found it interesting as a < researcher
C3: hmm hmm hmm >
A3: and we were potentially doing something different that wasn’t, um, commercial, but that wasn’t guaranteed.
C3: yes, absolutely

A3: and > so by discussing it, it reinforced my idea that, um, the ni- le le the meta level is a level that allows you to unframe, reframe and enter into things.
C3: hum hum
A3: and we’ll say um we’ll say fruit of chance it corresponds exactly to what I do in my field with applications that are < different but we’re
C3: hum hum >
A3: exactly the same < logic yeah
C3: in the same > logic yeah yeah totally so it’s normal that you want to find um
A3: so I enjoy taking part even more < and
C3: yeah >
A3: because I’m interested in this meta-level thing
C3: hum hum hum hum hum very good
A3: but I’m not sure um what I explain to my contractors is that we we we do a job is um define your project in one sentence and um yeah it’s easy no problem sometimes it takes three hours because it’s not easy
C3: in one sentence
A3: it’s not easy and um they think um they’ve got the elements but as they’re putting the phra- they have trouble because they don’t have the right words and then when they explain again it doesn’t match the sentence so you have to work on it again and so on so um three hours is a maximum eh but um it takes um one hour one hour and a half um depending on the case depending on the case
C3: hum hum

A3: and um if they’re on their own in five minutes they’ve got the sentence but it’s no good it’s the first sentence um from the beginning
C3: yeah
A3: they’re not going to rework it < they’re going to
C3: yeah >
A3: take it for granted
C3: ok < yeah
A3: there > it’s the same
C3: yeah
A3: it’s just that if you tell me um well that’s it now you’re on your own at the end of the first session um here’s how to do it and you’re on your own and we don’t have all these appointments
C3: hum hum
A3: erm, I wouldn’t have made as much progress because erm erm I would have understood the elements I would have put down elements but erm I didn’t have, let’s say, erm someone to enable me to do this confrontation, so I’m missing the explicitation which is an erm essential element of learning.
C3: yes, that makes me think, by the way, um, that in relation to um, work at home
A3: yeah
C3: I don’t know why I’m making a link with that anyway, well, it doesn’t matter, it comes at that point, um, you could possibly use the resources um that are on the site
A3: ah or it’s been a while since I’ve been on the site
C3: well yes, I’ve seen it < because I had a vague idea of what it was
A3: [laughs] >
C3: I was thinking yeah
A3: yeah but I left < on
C3: so >
A3: my thing eh < de de le- de reading
C3: there’s no there’s no >
A3: I couldn’t even remember the site

C3: there you go
A3: because there are some, well, I’m thinking about this in terms of a possible tool, um…
C3: yeah
A3: dictionary and so on < erm
C3: yeah yeah >
A3: you can look up < on it
C3: but > the thing is that um if I put the computer next to it it’s < a bit eh
A3: and yes > it’s it’s dangerous
C3: but um I’ve got a second computer so um where I don’t have
A3: there aren’t so many < distractors
C3: no, a bit > minus the < messaging service
A3: [laughs] >
C3: it’s on the other one I don’t open < on
A3: well there you go >
C3: on this one, so maybe there’s a < thing to do yeah that’s it yeah
A3: maybe a way >
C3: well, I’m just thinking about it < I don’t even know
A3: yeah yeah yeah yeah >
C3: how did I do it < the link
A3: but there > so um yeah that could be interesting
C3: erm, to vary or broaden erm, I thought erm, because we